Interview: Listening Raven - screenwriter of "REZ" (Question 4)

ROFFEKE: You predict that ten years from now "Native American projects, movies and sit-coms will be prolific." Why are you confident about this, despite the discouraging statistics? (Less than 1 percent. "Indigenous Representation is Still Scarce in Hollywood: We need more Native Stories" by Crystal Echo Hawk, variety.com, October 11th, 2021)

LISTENING RAVEN:

There are things we just know and feel. And there have already been hints, breaks and missed opportunities for Native Actors and programs.

The number of Native American/Canadian talent out there this very moment is massive. And for that matter, Indigenous Persons all over the world. This includes comedy.

There is without debate a vast number of Indigenous Persons that have the ability to jump right into leading roles.

It's going to happen just out of the laws of probability. The mainstream can only shun such a giant talent pool for so long.

When it does happen, it will appear to be an accident. As are many of life's greatest moments. And when it does take place it will be like an artistic volcano that erupts from the earth after being silent for many years.

A small group of Los Angeles or New York City executives will stand up and cry to the show business heavens how they discovered this amazing resource. When, in fact, that resource has been here for years. If you want to get technical, somewhere around 15,000 years. That's how long Indigenous Persons have been walking on this land now called The Americas. And in places like Kenya and the continent of Africa, much longer. The birthplace of humanity has so much to offer all of human kind.

(Mildred, please extend a greeting (Kiwakomile, kee-wah-ko-nee-lay) from the people of The Americans to the Indigenous Persons of Kenya. More should know that the issues of Indigenous Persons just doesn't apply to The Americans, but Kenya as well such as the Pastoralist and Hunter-Gatherers in Kenya.

Please tell these Indigenous Persons they have brothers and sisters in Spirit from a land far away. Then again, all women and men from all places around the globe are brothers and sisters. We all began our journey in Africa. And someday, we, the people with pure hearts and righteous intentions shall all meet in one place.

I pray every day I am in the group of the decent and kind.  

Many years ago, a Native American Elder explained to a newcomer to his land the struggle within all persons was like two dogs. The first was angry, aggressive and hateful. The second dog was kind, giving and filled with love.

When the Native Elder was asked by the newcomer which dog was stronger the Indigenous Elder responded: "Which ever one I feed the most.")  

Some say its good old-fashioned prejudice that keeps Indigenous Persons out of the mainstream in this thing called show business. And that can be the reason in some cases, no doubt. Sadly, there will always be some that are so filled with bile, hate and vengeance to the point that bigotry is all they know.  

However, the many persons in show business I've encountered are not bigots. They despise prejudice. And these studio executives that will jump with joy when they discover this Native wealth of talent are also good people for the most part. More Hollywood executives have given more chances to people of color and marginalized groups than many other businesses in The United Sates during the 19th Century. Not as many we'd like, but many other businesses. So, bigotry is not the primary reason for the exclusion of Indigenous Persons in entertainment. Many, myself included, believe it is fear of the unknown combined with the risk of losing money on what they see as a gamble. In short, it's not a question of black or brown, but green.  Lose the green stuff and you're out of a good paying job.  

And as for those brave studio executives that do take that big leap, it will be their discovery in the sense they took action when others sat still. They are the ones taking the career and financial risks. Always consider the other point of view. It's easy to be audacious with other people's money and business reputations. That's just life. That's taking an adult and realistic point of view.

That said, yes, risk taking needs to play a bigger factor. The first, second and even additional efforts may only break even or fail when it comes to Native Projects turning a profit. But it will pay off. We've had small breaks along the way.

A great example of an introductory moment was the sitcom Seinfeld in December of 1993 when this top rated programs in the ratings featured a Native American Woman on an episode. The name of the Indigenous actor was Kimberly Norris (Now Kimberly Guerrero) and she played the part of Winona. Without going into detail about this episode, which is brilliant, this stellar Native American talent was hilarious. In addition to being incredibly beautiful, she also had a certain stage presence that is a combination of great training and another element that can't be learned in the classroom.

Kimberly Norris-Guerrero (Winona) could easily have become a regular on Seinfeld, she was that captivating. Essentially, she was a Native version of the feature female character, Elaine Benes played by Julia Louis-Dreyfus.  

How incredible it would have been to have had the character of Winona start dating Jerry? The character was that enthralling thanks to Kimberly Norris-Guerrero. The issue here in 1993 is that some believed the audience wasn't ready to see The Native American Character as just a character the same way they saw the rest of the cast as just individuals.

We have to get to the point where great characters such as Winona are intriguing characters that happen to be Indigenous Persons as opposed to Indigenous Persons that are also great characters.

And even after Winona was not brought back for another episode, Kimberly Norrie-Guerrero absolutely should have been picked up for any number of other comedic roles in any number of other great shows. How that didn't happen, is a mystery. Or, worse yet, maybe it's not.

But this pattern cannot continue. The tides shall turn.  Once again, it's the laws of probability. So much sheer and overpowering talent in the Indigenous community will eventually explode upon the scene. And, as that Bill Shakespeare might say if he were here to see it happen, Why did equal talents bestride show business for so long like a colossus, while Native Talent found themselves in dishonorable artistic graves for far too many years.

Another key component to comedy is self-effacing humor. Many Indigenous Persons have amazing humor, much of which is self-deprecating. Just like any other group. We are all different; we are all the same. That can be depicted and celebrated.

The issue here is some in the mainstream are so hyper sensitive to offending Indigenous Person with smart humor that the powers to be won't take that risk out of political correctness. However, when you treat a group with kid gloves,that can be pandering. It's a fine line to many that produce programs.

Accept the fact we are all weird in our own way regardless of skin color, religion or geography. If you're not laughing at yourself some of the time, you're just not looking hard enough.

A 2024 version of Winona from the December 1993 Seinfeld episode could take the whole Indian giver remark in a completely different direction in 2025.

One: to be funny.

Two: to make a serious point about how the saying could factually be called: An Anglo giver.

And audience, and people in general don't like to be screamed at, lectured and demeaned even when they make ignorant remarks. Humor goes a long way regardless of what we look like on the outside. It can then open the door to a gentle manner in which to give a history and/or moral lesson.

The aforementioned Seinfeld episode with Kimberly Norris-Guerrero, if done today, could have gone unfolded as such:

WINONA:  You mean like an Indian giver?!

JERRY: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.

WINONA:  I could argue as a Native American isn't it my prerogative to be an Indian giver? Are you denying me my cultural birthright?

JERRY: You really want this TV Guide.

WINONA:  Besides, when you think about it, it's the white man that broke every contract they ever made with my people, so maybe it should be Anglo giver.

JERRY:  I think you just invented a new term.

WINONA: And I'm not even warmed up.

ANOTHER SUB-PLOT SCENE TAKES PLACE WITH OTHER CHARACTERS. THEN CUT BACK TO WINONA AND JERRY WALKING OUTSIDE

JERRY:  You know the term red skin is really inappropriate.

WINONA: I'm supposed to thank you for that sentiment?

JERRY:  Think about it, the only people that turn red are pale skinned whites with sunburn.

WINONA:  Fine. We'll go to the beach and I'll hide your suntan lotion and put your profile on a football helmet.

WINONA AND JERRY TURN TO ANOTHER TOPIC NOT RELATING TO CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. SOON, WINONA IS JUST ANOTHER CHARACTER AS FLAWED AS THE REST OF THE CAST. NOT FOR HER HERITAGE, BUT HUMANITY.

***

Look out for Listening Raven's answer to question 5: "Advise to upcoming screenwriters and those in underrepresented communities?"

Interview: Cassandra Berry, Susan Carol Davis, Claire Blakeney DeJarnett - "The Take Away" rockumentary

ROFFEKE: What unique challenges did you face in the making of "The Take Away" that you did not face making the previous two short films in the series? What challenges were similar to those of the other two short films? How long was the filming process and the editing process? What interesting parts, if any, ended up on the cutting floor and why?

Susan Carol Davis:
The challenges for the three films that Claire and I have made together are very similar:
1) Amount of time available to film 2) Limitations in budget available to promote the film once they were made 3) Availability of subjects to interview in a timely manner. When we set a goal to complete a film project for a requested film festival premiere, that has sometimes meant wrapping up our shooting of the film before every single person is interviewed whom we wanted to include.

At the same time, we set a goal to keep the length of our films under 20 minutes generally and that does mean, some favorite moments are edited out of the final cut when those moments don’t drive the story forward or mean as much to an audience outside of Denton, Texas where our filmed subjects live. The filming process for The Take Away was a total of 12 months with editing being a 5-month process.

 

Cassandra Berry

Claire Blakeney DeJarnett:
Our trip to Palestine with Cassandra yielded many hours of interesting footage, stories, and interactions that were especially difficult to trim down. At Cassandra’s old high school she tells a couple of intense, heartbreaking, and eye-opening stories about her time there. Taking these moments out was a choice for time and tone. A challenge on site in Palestine was the heat! I believe we were filming in Texas in July and this made it difficult to film exteriors for extended periods of time.

ROFFEKE tackles the misconceptions that rock is "mzungu" (white man) music and devil music. Muddy Waters sang that "The Blues had a baby and they named it rock and roll". You sing The Blues and Gospel (and rock?) in neighborhood bars. How do you reconcile all that - white, devil music, etc - with your Faith and history?

Cassandra Berry:
I personally do not buy into the misconceptions of rock music. Most, if not all, music is influenced by African/African American spirituals and gospel music, which often offers messages of hope and a rhythm that promoted excitement. The music I sing are messages of love, hope and community. Messages that need to be shared inside and outside the walls of faith-based communities. My audiences know that I identify as a Christian, whose heart is to carry out the true meaning of love and unity.

I was once asked by a pastor if I was still singing in the bars and the eateries. I told him yes and that I tend to go where Jesus would also go.

If through music, I can help someone to feel better leaving, than when they came, then I feel I fulfilled by life’s mantra. That mantra is “if I can help somebody while on this life’s journey, then my living is not in vain”. And that’s how I reconcile my faith and history.

Susan Carol Davis

 

ROFFEKE: In addition to being the CEO of Curious Dog Creative LLC, a film/stage director, producer and actress, you are also an arts educator. a) What would you say is the importance of arts education?
b) As a juror for the Thin Line Fest, what makes a film (or screenplay) stand out for you?

Susan:
a) Arts education encourages openness to other cultures, other traditions and other lifelong interests. Whether young adults decide to graduate from high school or college then work as dancers, actors or visual artists, they can enjoy the arts as hobbies and support arts organizations as donors. Art education in large or small communities opens up opportunities for people of all ages with physical, emotional or mental challenges to thrive and nurture self-esteem.

b) The films or screenplays that stand out to me capture my attention and interest within the first minutes of watching or reading. One example is the contemporary film, Emilia Pérez, nominated for the Golden Globes and Oscars this year. The camera work, the visuals, the sounds and acting are intriguing. I want to know more. I want to watch more. A film can have a large budget or a small budget. What I look for in narrative and documentary films is the director or writer’s clear point of view and how valuable their stories are in impacting the modern world for positive change and tolerance.

 

Claire Blakeney DeJarnett

ROFFEKE: You are the director of Film Programming for Thin Line Fest. What steps, if any, do you take to ensure the film programme is diverse and inclusive? What challenges do you face in this attempt?

Claire:
We have a terrific film programming team that is dedicated to watching all submissions in order to curate an interesting, diverse, and inclusive line-up and work with a number of distributors that bring quality content from around the globe. We try to program content from multiple perspectives and cultures and engage the communities around these topics. Our biggest challenge is the amount of submissions to review and chisel down. We receive around 400 submissions a season and have a small program each year. That small program must be engaging, unique, and varying in its themes and perspectives.

ROFFEKE: All three of you wear many hats and encounter (I think) similar challenges that women in entertainment from all over the world face. How do you take care of your mental health?

Susan:
I keep a sales job in the retail industry (clothing) because I enjoy the staff teamwork and because I like helping people of all ages to have a healthy body image. I also enjoy my home and my two dogs where there is peace and quiet and a place to entertain others. I begin and end every day with 15 minutes of meditation and prayer.

Cassandra:
Music is one of a few things that helps my mental wellbeing; it’s my love language with the God I serve. Family is very important to me, so spending quality time with them promotes positive mental health.

Claire:
Unabashedly, this is something I struggle with on a daily basis. Sometimes, the stress of my “many hats” and state of the world can feel overwhelming, but I try to make time for the activities that feed my soul and instill a sense of awe. I find peace in nature, and even if the day is busy and I can’t make it out for a hike, looking up at the sky for a moment or admiring a flower grounds me.

Interview: Listening Raven - screenwriter of "REZ" (Question 3)

ROFFEKE: Your portrayal of women in "Rez" is non-stereotypical, does not show them as being "voiceless, or silent...an object of desire, and victims of violence...without agency" (Illuminative's "The Time is Now: The Power of Native Representation in Entertainment", page 26). Did you purposely set out to portray the women in this more positive and realistic light or was it just a happy accident?

LISTENING RAVEN:
Perhaps my single greatest blessing has been the women in my life that have personified the Warrior Culture Spirit. As a child there was much assistance in my journey of life. I will leave it at that. Most of that has come from the strong women. 

In terms of the Female Warrior Spirit, I have heard of examples of women taking actions that were of such a just and affirmative manner that if revealed, they could be misinterpreted by the contemporary justice system. Sometimes justice takes place in places outside the court rooms.

So, I guess the female characters in REZ were just portrayed as the strong female figures that saved those of us that were once too young to fight back.

(NOTE: The following are free flowing thoughts. These free-flowing thoughts may apply to any and all of the questions. Just wrote down some extra text that happened, thanks to your intriguing and inspirational questions, Mildred.)

The list of female Native/Indigenous Performers is just as prolific. Especially when keeping in mind the genre of rock -n- roll has many mothers, fathers, cousins and siblings when it comes to musical forms.

The Native American Jazz Singer, Mildred Baily from the 1930s was known internationally as the Queen of Swing. She also sang blues music.

Today there is the folk music singer Kelly Jackson of Native American Heritage. And the Pop Music great Raye Zaragona who takes inspiration from her Native American and Japanese roots.

And the brother and sister duo of Sihasin.

There are so many more.

One could get lost celebrating the eclectic array of Native American/Canadian-Indigenous musicians past and present. Sadly, however, in order to lose oneself in these glorious cultures, one has to begin the journey. Once the mainstream entertainment industry takes this step, it will be a groundbreaking journey. And not just for Indigenous Persons, but the world. 

***Look out for Listening Raven's answer to question 4:
You predict that ten years from now "Native American projects, movies and sit-coms will be prolific." Why are you confident about this, despite the discouraging statistics? (Less than 1 percent. "Indigenous
Representation is Still Scarce in Hollywood: We need more Native Stories" by Crystal Echo Hawk, variety.com, October 11th, 2021).